maandag 22 juni 2009
Questions & Comments
With the move to a new home at www.clubworldrankings.com, the possibility to post your questions and comments returns to the Oosterpark Rankings. While an integrated forum proved too much of a bother last time around, thanks to an endless series of spambot attacks, this Google-powered blog might just be the ideal solution. Time will tell, so for now, fire away!
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Hi, I am fan of the Puerto Rico Islanders FC from CONCACAF. I like to know why still having 7 point when they get up to semi-finals on champions cup who is the best way to measure it ranking in the area. Please revise your numbers.
BeantwoordenVerwijderen7 points is the standard points haul for a CONCACAF semi final appearance at the moment. For that to improve, CONCACAF needs to start reaching club world cup finals, or to send other teams than Mexican ones deep into Copa Libertadores/Copa Sudamericana (as it is, they're actually withdrawing).
BeantwoordenVerwijderenPerhaps the dawn of your CONCACAF Champions League will improve the overall quality to a level that enables your clubs to achieve the above mentioned targets. If so on a regular(ish) basis (this is an ALL TIME ranking, not a current form thing, so ratings are MEANT to be stable rather than shooting up and crashing down year after year), then CONCACAF's rating will improve and with it the number of points available in any given year.
Mind you, the Islanders, despite ultimately winning nothing, are already on the brink of the all-time top-100 CONCACAF clubs, and that with just one decent campaign. That is as much improvement as most clubs would realistically expect. And when the next rankings update is done, another bonus point for your renewed appearance in the CL group stage will be added.
What can you say about http://iffhs.de/?7d4d443d0a8a3ccdc42ec70a114b4ccc13f8ac378cdc07ccaf10
BeantwoordenVerwijderenHi there. You're Crematorij from football.hiblogger.net aren't you? :) I've been following your blog for a long time.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenAs for the IFFHS rankings, all I can say is that we differ approaches to ranking clubs. Personally, their claim that "national competitions are merely a prerequisite to qualify for the continental club competitions", and choosing to ignore them on that basis, is not something I agree with.
Furthermore, I think the IFFHS repeated the argument that their rankings are "not influenced by subjective influences and imaginary values" so many times they've started to believe it themselves. On what basis were 8 points given for a win, 4 for a draw and none for a loss? And why were those points halved or otherwise adapted at some stages? They say WHEN they did it, but not why (apart from claiming it was necessary). Now, I've no problems with making that judgement in itself, just don't claim you're not making subjective decisions.
The Oosterpark Rankings make subjective decisions as well, but I'm not denying that's the case. For instance, not everyone will agree the European Cup is worth 3 times the strongest leagues, but then, ANY value could be disputed by any given person. That's why EVERY single ranking system on the planet is subject to personal preferences.
It won't come as a surprise that I consider my own continental all-time rankings "better" than the IFFHS' versions. I just don't think domestic achievements should be discounted.
By the way, if I remember correct, you're a Boca fan, in which case you'll probably enjoy the latest addition to clubworldrankings.com: the Recopa Mundial.
Why aren't the current American Samoan teams there? Also, will there be any teams added from the lower leagues?
BeantwoordenVerwijderenFor American Samoa, there is just one point available for the champions (which are usually taken from the RSSSF). I just checked back there and see that last week, the 2009 champions were listed as Black Roses. That will be processed in the next update, sometime this coming week. So apart from that title, as far as my information goes, we're up to date. If you've any other information, I'd love to hear it. :)
BeantwoordenVerwijderenTeam from lower leagues are part of the rankings if they ever scored points before. No points are available for lower divisions. Some 5-6 years ago, one of the earlier releases of the rankings did include lower division titles in stronger countries, but it caused strange situations in which teams outscored those that were ever-present at the highest level without winning trophies. In place of points for lower division titles came bonus points for being part of (strong) top divisions. That way, lower league champions would get their reward by getting to the highest level, without them outscoring those teams that were regulars at that level.
Hello, I have just found your website and I love it; it's very clear and detailed which is cool.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenFirst a question, when are all the tables updated? So like, Conmebol, 21st century, etc.?
Second, would it possible to request a page of all-time rankings for Ecuador. Although, most of their major teams are in the conmebol page, I would appreciate a page just for them. Thanks again for the page.
Hi Calvin,
BeantwoordenVerwijderenThanks for the compliments, good to hear you enjoy the site and its level of detail. :)
The regional tables and those about the 21st century and the like are usually updated yearly, but occassionally I update them after major competitions finish. So that means an interim update for Europe at the end of May, and for CONMEBOL after Copa Libertadores is over. Now that Copa Sudamericana is finished for another year, I suppose I could update both CONMEBOL and the 21st century again, although it is very close to the end of the year. But since you asked, I will do it this weekend. As for Ecuador: why not! I intended to add Uruguay and Colombia at the turn of the year, and Ecuador are certainly not doing any worse these days. With LDU taking up a place in the top-100, it would be a good time to add Ecuador as well.
And there you go: along with the global update, the 21st century and CONMEBOL rankings have been updated.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenAdditional domestic rankings will follow during the Christmas break.
HI,
BeantwoordenVerwijderenCOngratulations for your ranking which is impressive.
I would like to know if the current CAF ranking includes the last results from the CAF Confederation and Champions League Finals ?
Also, I wanted to know if the CAF ranking (first 100) for the 21st century could be made available ? I am making a study on African football and may use that ranking if available. Didn't find you mail to cimmunicate directly...
Nicolas Fernandez (France)
Bonjour Nicolas,
BeantwoordenVerwijderenThanks for the kind words. The ranking does include the most recent CAF finals, and today an update with some of the missing domestic titles will go up as well.
If it is of interest to you, I can put a 2000-2009 African ranking through the system tonight. I don't have an e-mail address from you, so I guess the quickest way for you is to check the site.
My direct e-mail address is info@clubworldrankings.com by the way.
Well, there we are:
BeantwoordenVerwijderenwww.clubworldrankings.com/2099afr.htm shows the top African clubs this century (well, technically the century started in 2001, but I like round numbers ;) )
I also made good on an earlier promise of putting up an Ecuadorian ranking:
www.clubworldrankings.com/ecu.htm
Site navigation is slightly different than was the case until 10 minutes ago. One navigation page is easier to update than approximately 40 pages all across the site.
(what do you mean learn proper CSS? :p)
Hello,
BeantwoordenVerwijderenThis is Calvin again, I know MLS is still far inferior to other leagues and countries, but I was wondering if you could make a page for the USA. I'm sure you won't have to update it that often because they can't win in the Champions League, ha ha.
But, I would like to see a page for them just to make quick comparisons.
Thank you again for the site.
A bit like this then Calvin? ;)
BeantwoordenVerwijderenwww.clubworldrankings.com/usa.htm
(also available through the menu structure now)
Lots of non-MLS clubs still there, though most of them won't score a single point anymore, having gone out of business years ago.
I see with the MLS point system that you only have pts. for the MLS cup champion and the US open Cup champion. would you consider making a seperate point allotment for the Supporters Shield Winner. The Supporter Shield Winner gets an automatic spot in the Champions League and rarely wins the MLS cup, but in many opinions is the best team of the league.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenPerhaps, the MLS cup shouldn't be worth as much if more points are given.
Something to consider
I finished creating my site , translated in english language , with a new interface . Now , you can look at my explanations and can understand how i do it . w w w . rng . totalh . com / explanations . html - delete all spaces between words . now , I wait your opinion about it .
BeantwoordenVerwijderenHi Calvin,
BeantwoordenVerwijderenHopelessly late response, sorry for that...
I'd LOVE to give separate points to the SS winners, but that would be inconsistent with the way I treated the Brazilian championship before they saw the light and went double round-robin like any sensible league.
At domestic level, only genuine titles count. An interim trophy like the Supporters Shield can't be counted as it would upset the balance between league and cup, and leagues in the same confederation. As you said, it already guarantees the winners a place in the CL. Let that be the reward for those teams: US teams usually score decent bonus points in the CL...
AlleXyS: Good to see more football rankings on the internet. The rankings look a bit strange because they only started this year, but that should even out over the years. I'm not sure about the exact points spread between competitions (difference between European/South American cups and those of other continents & some league ratings), but then that's up to each individual ranking system to determine. I certainly took my time getting to the final formulas: more than 5 years in some cases!
BeantwoordenVerwijderenGood luck with the development of the WCR:NG :-)
... And with that, I'm going to close the book on this "blog". It started out as an alternative to the hacked forum on the site, but never really took off. Meanwhile, Facebook has pretty much taken over the world of Social Media, so as Im about to post on clubworldrankings.com, that's where we'll be taking the Q&A sessions.
BeantwoordenVerwijderenThanks to everybody for their questions and comments. I hope to see you over on http://www.facebook.com/pages/Oosterpark-Rankings-ClubWorldRankingscom/365258118839